“Bojack was on drugs” yeah, and Beatrice is mentally ill. So what??

We also only get Bojack’s side. Convenient. We don’t know the full context of the “drowning” situation. Maybe she thought Bojack was a demon, we will never know… Never the less, I don’t care if he was drunk, on drugs, mentally ill, the choking should never have happened. Period. No one to blame but Bojack himself. There is no excuse for that. If he’s on drugs, he should not have shown up to work.

I’m not gunna compare an older woman trying to drown a 22 year old man vs a 54 year old man trying to choke a 39 year old woman. Not gunna debate which one is worse. That’s fucked up. Not gunna compare a family physical assault to the physical assault of a coworker. Both are fucked up.

As for the Beatrice quotes. We could endlessly debate the absolutely cruel, vicious and utterly horrible things Bojack has said over the years too. Bojack has said things just as bad to the people in his life.

You’re right, they are not the same. Both equally bad for different reasons that we disagree on. We don’t have to agree.

I feel that both deserve empathy on some level. They don’t deserve my kindness or any good manners from me. I feel empathy for them INTERNALLY and externally would choose to cut them the fuck out of my life and tell them to drop dead. Empathy is a FEELING. I choose not to act on it for people who would never show me the same respect.

Both things can co-exist my dude.

Bojack and Beatrice have both done awful things that no person can morally come back from, in my opinion. It’s not a competition and there is no argument either way. You feel trying to drown somebody to death is worse than trying to choke someone to death. That’s fine. We disagree. To me it’s a toss of the coin.

Once again, you can’t pull the “she’s sadistic, she tried to drown him” card when Bojack literally almost choked a woman to dead. Same thing. By your definition Bojack is sadistic.

I disagree.

Both of them do not have true malice in their hearts. As seen in multiple flashbacks, Beatrice and Bojack were both once innocent children who were abused.

Hot take OP.

You can’t claim that Bojack is a morally grey character and that his mother is a villain in the same breath and still be believable. Beatrice is just as deserving of empathy as Bojack and if you don’t see that you’re a hypocrite. The show goes to great lengths to show that she’s even more traumatized than Bojack himself… I don’t agree with slotting her in with other characters who are actual sadistic psychopaths.

In my subjective opinion: Bojack behaves like a bad person. As long as he feels crippling shame, guilt and remorse he’s not evil in my book. I would be happy if he dropped dead, because he SUCKS, and the 1% of good he sometimes offers does not make up for the 99% of shit he vomits everywhere.

It’s complicated.

I think Diane could have navigated the conversation with Mr. PB a lot better. Which is why it’s complicated.

We need to remember to practice “mentalization” which is where you practice the skill of holding someone else’s reality inside your own head and imagining what they might do/say based on what you know.

Mr. PB is a male. He’s a rich, privileged male. He’s not directly effected by the issues Diane is advocating against. He was once a young, naive and impressionable boy. He’s also a dog, meaning he has a constant, never-ended need for reassurance, positive affirmations and ‘togetherness’ with his closest friends. Diane’s inherent critical nature and her conflictual accusations (no matter how true) are at direct odds with Mr’s inner needs. Mr will choose harmony over justice. He’s a good boy, and good boys don’t challenge male authority… We saw in a earlier clip how Mr looks up to and idolizes Hank, which further complicates why it’s so hard for him to see Hank as a perpetrator. It’s like telling someone their beloved father is a rapist. It’s a hard pill to swallow and you cannot realistically expect someone to side with you the first time you share that new information. It’s too shocking. Mr is loyal too so naturally he wants to defend Hank.

All of this is why, Diane could have approached the conversation with a softer touch… She needed to go on a long term campaign to slowly get Mr. PB to accept the idea that his idol is bad and corrupt. But Diane didn’t do that. She made a promise to drop it entirely and then turned around and did the opposite of that… Which was super hurtful to Mr. PB.

Big picture: Diane is in the right. Perpetrators should be called out and victims deserve justice. If you can use your voice to normalize speaking out about injustices, then do it.

Small picture: Diane was insensitive to Mr. PB’s feelings and betrayed him by doing the thing he politely asked her not to do because it causes him emotional distress.