Jude the Obscure defence squad rise! furiously hurls pig organs and Latin books

I actually totally get why Hardy isn’t universally popular, he has an offkey sense of humour and is more than a bit ridiculous in places, Jude not exempted.

But it’s mostly an endearing ridiculous IMO. And he just writes characters and relationships I’ve not found anywhere else. Jude isn’t just about class, but how the world won’t tolerate people who don’t conform in various ways - Jude and Sue are both utter weirdos and I love them for it. And the sexual incompatibility is so sensitively written, without shaming either character - I really can’t think of another book that’s managed to pull that off so well, even today. (I couldn’t stand On Chesil Beach).

Oh god yes. Down with that book. The MC is 15 and I read it when I was 15 and a big Murakami fan. It left me wondering if Murakami had ever met a teenager. He’s written exactly like the typical middle aged divorced Murakami protagonist. Except he also has some rape fantasy thing going on? Why, just why.

l’ll always love some of his playful, fun, gloriously batshit earlier stuff like Hard Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World but this had absolutely none of those qualities. And was like 4x the length. Maybe he got too famous for his editor to make edits any more…

I agree! They’re a comfort read for me. I don’t get the people saying it’s just taking advantage of the paranormal romance trend - it’s actually quite an original genre mashup. More a mystery novel series where the heroine goes on some dates than a fantasy romance - the love interests are all flawed in very down to earth ways and it doesn’t follow a romance HEA formula. The supernatural universe was endearingly crapsack instead of being gritty, but it’s not just the real world with fangs either - all the different creatures feel properly inhuman. And it really was pretty queer inclusive for the time (Pam!), though hasn’t aged well in some ways.

I do get that not everyone loves the bizarre little montages of the heroine enthusiastically doing housework and planning really hideous outfits, but they’re just a bonus imo. Go Sookie, rock that twin-set!

Although, I was extremely creeped out by the old people going to their Descendants of the Glorious Dead confederacy history society thing - but I guess that’s probably just quite realistic? I’ve not read much else set in the southern US.

If I’ve understood this right, you’re particularly looking for recognisable, everyday nastiness? A really neat fit for that might be women writers from socially conservative settings where women had to be adept at navigating human foibles, and consequently produced brilliant descriptions of them.

The first that comes to mind is Jane Austen! She’s brilliant at drawing flawed characters that feel like real people you might meet today, not just caricatures that would only make sense to Regency readers. Emma is probably the most flawed of the heroines themselves, but every novel has a strong cast of deliciously awful and often rather daft people.

Some early 20th century Chinese writers would fit the bill too, particularly Eileen Cheng. I’d recommend Sealed Off as an introduction - it’s a stunning, very short story about two self-absorbed people meeting during a transport blockade. Love in a Fallen City and Lust, Caution are also amazing. She has a very bitter view of human relationships but it’s always well-observed and compelling.

Elena Ferrante’s Neapolitan Quartet looks at an intense, complex friendship between two women in mid 20th century Naples. In this one both leads are academically brilliant, but it might still be a good fit (there are many different ways to be stupid after all!) There is again a large cast of very human, sometimes awful characters.

Taking kink literally. Woman wants guy to hit her? She has repressed trauma from her father. Guy agrees? He’s secretly a very awful misogynist.

It’s always the woman character who has the ‘problematic’ kink. And it’s in loads of lit fic books, not just a romance genre thing. (Coughs in Normal People. Poor kinky Marianne!)

Yes! The ‘not like other girls’ trope of historical/fantasy fiction. This work must have been absolutely exhausting, including things like sewing for hours in poor light. The implication also tends to be that women’s crafts were just decorative and not as technically skilled or economically important as men’s work.

On the other hand, these are quite action-heavy genres so I guess it’s a bit of a plot challenge if the main character’s favourite thing is sitting down indoors when she’s meant to be going on an epic journey or whatever. There’s a lot more handicrafts in Chinese historical dramas, but they tend to be more about political power struggles and interpersonal conflicts that people can get on with in the comfort of their own home.

I love reviews like that! Books can be bad in kind of an interesting way, if you know what I mean? Often you can at least see what they were aiming for or why enough people liked them for them to get published, and it’s fun trying to figure out what didn’t quite work. Particularly when you read a not so great book by an author you otherwise enjoy- it gives some insight into what does work about their better books. Sort of like learning how a machine operates when it breaks down and you try to fix it.

It can just be a bit naff when the reviewer doesn’t really get what the book is trying to do to begin with. Quite a few Goodreads reviews are basically ‘this is the first book I’ve ever read in X genre and it sucks because it’s not like the books I prefer in Y genre.’

I’m not sure we’re meant to slightly sympathise with Humbert. His voice is very compelling in the sense that you want to keep reading, but not at all in the sense that he’s charming or makes you root for him. He’s more Raskolnikov than Tom Ripley. There’s a visceral yuck factor - just very beautifully written yuck! According to Lolita Podcast, one of the assault scenes was based on Nabokov’s own experience as a child.

We get just enough glimpses of Dolores to make her the sympathetic character, and not just because she’s the victim. Her voice is as different from his as it’s possible to be and it’s very satisfying when it cuts through his pompous narration, and when she outwits him.