I want to hear the theories that you gotta stretch before you reach for, but that you still genuinely believe and are willing to defend.

  • AStreetcarNamedJim@alien.topB
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    10 months ago

    This is turning out pretty long. Some day, I’d like to systematically go through the show and jot down all of these details, but that would take a long time.

    The flatline is an interesting detail: At the end of 15, we hear it, then the beep resumes. But at the beginning of 16, we see BoJack and Diane sitting on the roof, looking up, and then the beep comes back in, increases, and flatlines again. I believe this is when he actually dies. The show does a lot of misdirects - a couple innocuous ones from S1 are the birds having blackmail on BoJack that never amounts to anything, and Todd never finding the BeastBuy receipt that shows BoJack sabotaged his rock opera - and I believe the transition to Horsin’ Around is one such misdirect.

    When BoJack is on his bender in S1E11, we see a lot of surreal references to impactful moments or conversations in his life, like his dad forgetting to pick him up after a soccer game, him sinking into a tar pit like Charlotte talked about, and he and Herb fighting and then Herb dying. I believe we see the same memory bleeding in 16 with his guilt over killing Sarah Lynn, which means BoJack is not experiencing actual events: PB reveals the Hollywoob sign at the planetarium even though we have never seen the Hollywoo(d) sign and the planetarium in the same shot (I believe, although I would have to watch the entire show again to verify this); when Todd brings BoJack to the beach to watch fireworks, we keep seeing flashes of red and blue on their faces, just like the lights from the police car at the planetarium when BoJack waits 17 minutes and then calls for help (there is also some yellow from the ambulance); and when each of the main characters stops talking to BoJack, we get a brief blackout transition before the next character starts talking, just like BoJack keeps blacking out during the S3E11 bender episode. We also learn about the BoJeebies kid who found him in the pool, and it looks like he’s falling into a life of predatory fame. BoJack freaked out when Olivia said she wanted to be like him, and I think he worries that he’s going to ruin someone else’s life just like he ruined Sarah Lynn’s.

    In the car, BoJack has a line where he tells PB he doesn’t want to go to the wedding because he thinks that something bad is going to happen. He also looks suspiciously at the sign for the roof before PC starts talking to him, and this sounds like a premonition of his death, as in “Once I say goodbye to Diane, I have no reason to hold on.” In a similar vein, PC has a strange line where she says she that Horny Unicorn is doing well and he could get back into acting, then backtracks with “I’m sorry I said anything”; this sounds like exactly the kind of fumbling statement you’d say to a dying friend before you realize quite what you’ve said.

    I will say none of this is ironclad and I could be wrong, and I like that such finely-tuned details exist. One thing I know is that we know BoJack couldn’t have actually died at the end of 15 because he would have no idea that PC and Diane married, which we got independent confirmation of earlier on, so I think that everyone saying farewell to him in the hospital while he’s in a coma, or at least some drugged-out state.

    • n8dogg55@alien.topB
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      10 months ago

      I could see this being the case. The small details with the fireworks and the cuts really add to it for me. The only thing that I can say to counter is that I don’t think Diane would go to a hospital in LA to tell this to dying Bojack. She tells him at the wedding because he’s alive and there. But she wouldn’t say this to him in his dying moments, especially if she’s medicated.

    • mansonfamilycircus@alien.topOPB
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      10 months ago

      As far as the Hollywoob sign and the observatory, if you’re talking about their physical location relative to eachother you can see one from the other.

      I just rewatched the finale and while I don’t think I’m fully convinced, I can definitely see where you’re coming from and I like this take. The wrap-up with each character did feel a bit too neat, not like how it would actually go at a wedding(even in bojack’s universe), and each conversation did give off some deathbed vibes, especially Bojack and PC.

      • AStreetcarNamedJim@alien.topB
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        10 months ago

        Nah, I mean in the show. But I just realized they show the sign at the very end of S1E12, so they’ve made that link before and PB stopping there isn’t as strange as I thought it was.

        I agree that the wrap-up of each character feels too neat, especially when we’ve spent so much time seeing how messy everyone is. When I first saw it, I was disappointed that the writers would go with such a basic “PC and Diane are married, therefore they’re happy now,” but now I think it has a lot of significance because it’s just the sort of facade you would present to someone you won’t see again.

        A funny detail is that the jury is full of people whom BoJack has offended in some way (e.g. the Home Depot elephant he insults, the Princess Bride guy, and Neal McBeal). That could be his subconscious eating away at him, though it could also simply be a result of a corrupt legal system or incredibly shitty luck.

    • konterreaktion@alien.topB
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      10 months ago

      You can see the Hollywood sign from the griffith observatory in real life, so I don’t see how thats relevant