I’ve seen people talk about actors and artists that had a terrible time.

My own would be Anne Rice. She wrote Interview with the Vampire after her young daughter died of Leukemia. Then her husband suddenly died of a brain hemorrhage. I suspect her Christian, anti-fanfic phase was a result of mental illness and manipulation from the publishers, although I don’t think she ever apologized.

  • jloome@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    She’s not going to get better

    You probably could have ended that sentence there, unfortunately.

    I know women who have the same vehemence as her on this issue despite being liberal and progressive in every other aspect of their lives.

    In both cases, they were assaulted by men when young, as Rowling was, and in both cases, the biological distinction of being a woman is important to them, because they utterly fear and loathe most men.

    It’s not a conscious, constant hatred of the other gender, it’s a continual subconscious and internalized fear of being assaulted again.

    Anything that reinforces that fear by allowing the notion of men being able to pass among women triggers their internal insecurity about rape, basically.

    Psychologically speaking, it’s entirely understandable. It’s not stable or rational, but it’s also a product of horrible trauma and not a mere matter of them “choosing” to be bigoted.

    • DangerOReilly@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      I think that’s painting all trauma survivors as people who can’t “choose”, though. A great many women have survived trauma, even the same kind of trauma, as Rowling, and haven’t become bigots. Hell, trans people are at a massively increased risk of sexual assault, and most of them aren’t bigots.

      Sorry, but as a trauma survivor, I think it’s highly irresponsible to attribute bigotry to trauma. Bigots are ALWAYS choosing to be bigots. We trauma survivors are not exempt from this. We’re not led by instinct. We have agency to choose. And JKR chose to become a bigot and is every day choosing to remain one. She is fully accountable for her actions, as any other bigot is.

      • jloome@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        I think that’s painting all trauma survivors as people who can’t “choose”, though.

        Why? I literally referred to three women going through this and posited why. I didn’t apply it to “all” at any time.

        I’m also a trauma survivor and have had complex PTSD for much of my life. If I can understand their subconscious drivers are clearly beyond their control or understanding, you should be able to as well.

        People are psychologically complex. By ascribing “all” to my post, you’re doing the exact thing you’re accusing me of: assuming everyone could handle it the way you did.

        EVERY HUMAN BEING IS LED BY INSTINCT. We all have subconscious drivers we DO NOT, and CANNOT control.

        That is a neurobiological reality of how the brain functions. No neuroscientist worth his salt will comprehensively say we have “free will” if the definition includes controlling subconscious drivers.

        • DangerOReilly@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          I did not read it as specific to those three people, but as a more general statement on these types of people, who turn to bigotry and have a history of trauma.

          People are psychologically complex. By ascribing “all” to my post, you’re doing the exact thing you’re accusing me of: assuming everyone could handle it the way you did.

          Uh, no, that’s just what I inferred you saying from your comment. Hence I called it out, because I thought YOU were saying it.

          EVERY HUMAN BEING IS LED BY INSTINCT. We all have subconscious drivers we DO NOT, and CANNOT control.

          There are things outside of our control. Being a bigot is not one of them. It is not an instinct. It is an active choice one has to make and keep making. If you’re traumatized by the actions of a man and a specific trans person’s appearance happens to trigger your trauma and you go into fight/flight/freeze/fawn, then that’s an instinct. But if you then go on a rampage to call all trans people rapists and donate to transphobic causes and people and ally yourself with actual fascists and fascism-apologists, that is not an instinct. That is an active choice.

          • jloome@alien.topB
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            1 year ago

            But it’s a choice based on belief, which humans have a very hard time controlling. So it’s a deeply misinformed choice.

            • DangerOReilly@alien.topB
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              1 year ago

              … what? You seriously think we can’t control beliefs or opinions?

              Do you just think that humans are mindless automatons who can’t control anything or most things in life? Because that’s nonsense.

              And why is it so important to you to find explanations or excuses for her choices? The choices remain deeply damaging to society and to marginalized people and communities. Even if she was truly just motivated by her own trauma, that does not make these choices defensible. She is making the world worse for people who have done nothing to her and who only want to exist in peace.

              There is no defense for this.

        • Excellent_Pipe_1270@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          I think it is difficult for people to understand who do not have mental issues. I have in certain situations severe anxiety. People even those who know me well often do not understand that I cannot just help being the way I am. That the feelings that come are not something I can control. People constantly interpret my behaviour as asocial and unfriendly but I am far from that I just cannot help becoming defensive and silent when I am afraid.

    • falling-waters@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Have you ever considered that, perhaps, if your greatest enemies are lesbians and feminists, that you could be the one in the wrong?

      • jloome@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        What are you even talking about? Read the post. I’m not enemies with JK Rowling or anybody, for that matter.

    • livingadhesively@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      I totally agree with you, but I don’t agree that she couldn’t get better given the space and time to do so, it’s just that genuinely giving her privacy and space is impossible in the age of social media, globalisation, etc.

      I think people forget that where she is now isn’t where she started, where she is now has been psychologically reinforced over and over again by the things I’ve mentioned, and that where she started is only just over 3 years ago - it seems much longer bc it was covid years. 3 years is not a lot in a lifetime over otherwise being a kind and almost uniquely generous person.

      If somehow her circumstances could change, I think she could change.

      • jloome@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        Possibly. The two women I know who are similar in outlook are not rich, famous or exposed publicly.

        But that also prevents any change or view of the matter as something that requires change; it doesn’t impact their lives to fear trans people. They don’t know any … other than a relative of mine, who they treat nicely despite their own views, because cognitive dissonance allows it.

        In both cases, they are intellectually gifted but deeply emotionally arrested, so therefore immature in many of their views, attitudes and behaviours. Outwardly, loving and normal. Inwardly, incredibly conflicted and unlikely to ever trust most people enough to seek help.

        Ultimately, when people suffer trauma, they also suffer mental disorders. As someone who has struggled with them my whole life, I can tell you most mentally ill people can’t see, or qualify, or quantify their issues.

        So expecting them to change is extremely optimistic at best, and often just naive.

        It’s very rare for people to “fix” deeply negative traits. They are defensive traits, typically. Until the person feels secure enough to get help – which usually requires outside intervention – it never happens.

        Yes, she won’t seek that help because she’s rich, famous and can isolate however she likes. But equally, the average person will never seek it because they are literally never exposed to any ramification of feeling that way.

        • livingadhesively@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          Again, mostly agree, although I would argue that it does impact her life to fear trans people when again, they turn up where she lives. That is not going to convince anyone to support you or change their mind.