I thought Bojack was going to have to really work up to apologizing, and while he’s going on and on about how much he hurt him and must have ruined his whole life, and oh the big horrible thing he did, Herb would stop him and go something like, “get over yourself, I haven’t even thought about you in 20 years. You were a shitty friend back then, but I’ve been so much better having not had you in my life. And I have ass cancer.”

Bojack would have a moment of humbling, realizing he’s not the center of everyone’s lives.

But I’m glad it didn’t. That would have given Bojack an out for his bad behavior like nothing matters if given enough time. I like how Herb calls out Bojack for wanting to apologize just for his own closure, and Stanley Tucci is amazing in that role

I don’t think I had a particular expectation at that point. That was before learning what Bojack actually did to Herb; as the audience we just knew that it was a deep betrayal of some kind. So it wasn’t like I had the scene plotted out ahead of time as “main character goes to friend to apologise and receive absolution”. I was just watching the show.

That said, I do think Herb probably would have reconciled with Bojack and maybe rekindled their friendship – and maybe eventually actually forgiven him – if Bojack had not reacted so poorly to his non-forgiveness in the first place.

I do think Herb would have forgiven him if Bojack had handled the situation differently. But Bojack was still the same Bojack that stabbed Herb’s back in the 90s, and Herb saw that he hadn’t changed.

I was surprised Herb let him in his house lol.

I honestly don’t know why Herb invited Bojack to his house. Seemed all he did was passively-aggressively bitch over Bojack betraying him 20 years ago. Then he twisted the knife by refusing to forgive him and told him to get the fuck out of his house.

I don’t blame Herb for being angry but I don’t see what he hoped to gain from seeing Bojack again. Outside of some petty revenge before he died.

Honestly, yeah. I thought there’d be more of a conversation between them before he came to that decision. Him instantly jumping to “I don’t forgive you” and not backing down really sold me on the show.

I was new to the show and used to comedy sitcoms where problems get resolved by the end of those 20 minutes… even relatively “dark” ones like Rick and morty get their shit fixed by the end so yeah I thought he’d forgive him

It’s easy to say “no” when you’ve watched the show beforehand and know what’s gonna happen and why it’s gonna happen.

Going in blind though, it’s easy to think that Herb would’ve forgiven Bojack. The show so far hadn’t really started going off the deep end with its themes yet, so it wouldn’t have been out of place to have a guy who’s practically on his deathbed forgive his ex best friend. Additionally, even within the episode, the two characters still retained most of their old chemistry and were getting along pretty well. You’d be well within your rights to think that Herb probably moved on, isn’t holding a grudge, and would consequently not really have any issues forgiving Bojack for not fighting for him all those years ago. It came as a surprise to me when he told Bojack that he wasn’t gonna forgive him, and then it was an even bigger surprise when things soured so much between them almost immediately too. I figured Bojack would’ve been mopey about it and move on, but I never figured they’d get in a fist fight over the telescope. I’m not fully sure how I feel about this particular incident tbh.

I had that scene spoiled for me before I saw it, but I showed BJH to my dad after I finished the whole series, so I asked him. This is what he said:

“I hoped Herb would forgive Bojack. Not for Bojack’s sake; for Herb’s. And because I’m somewhat optimistic, I expected Herb to forgive Bojack. After seeing the entire show, I understand why Herb did not. My heart aches for Herb”

I really liked that answer!

Herb proved himself to be just as toxic as everybody else and validated Bojack’s fear of coming to him.

I felt like I didn’t know Herb enough to be able to predict whether he’d forgive him or not. It would be the great sitcom ending which made me think Herb likely wouldn’t forgive BoJack, also I doubt BoJack would make enough of an effort for Herb to forgive him.

I was surprised how well they bantered which made me think I was wrong during the episode. But of course it all came crashing down and Herb’s lines were brutal.

Yes. Because it is a TV show. And a sticom. And sticoms have happy endings, even the deeper ones.

I didn’t relize yet the kind of show it is.

I knew there was no way, and when he actually went through with not forgiving him I was really happy about it. Sometimes people ask forgiveness to absolve themselves, not to make you feel better, and you have no obligation to abide such a selfish request

Yeah I did. I didn’t know what the show was really going to be yet and I didn’t expect it to be as good as it was, so I expected the typical TV show thing to happen. It was this episode and Downer Ending that really hit me hard and got me hooked. Before this episode, I thought it was a fairly amusing show that I would watch for the occasional laugh.

I did. I was really happy they didn’t. It had already subverted my expectations a few times, but that one was a big trope to turn around.