The show is real. It’s not triumphant but it’s not hopeless either. There’s depression and hope. But wouldn’t say there’s a rainbow.

“Don’t go back to the restaurant, Princess Carolyn, just keep driving away…”

That would actually work really well (if they were not straight and attracted to eachother).

Bojack often spirals negatively and pushes everyone away or brings them down. Mr PB would never give up on him, wouldn’t be dragged down emotionally when bj is sad, and might even be able to help bj be happier and form new healthy habits and do the work to process his trauma.

Bojacks too old for him but apart from that they’d be cute lol

It would be a very different show because he’s consistently shown to not be able to consistently do a job (like he’ll just stop showing up to go on a bender). Because he’s a famous celebrity, that works because there’s always another show or movie. And also, he’s rich, so he can afford to lose a job. If he wasn’t famous he’d probably be broke, or he’d have to reign it in to keep a job.

The results of some his actions would never come out because he’s not famous (like the Penny thing). Attacking Gina would get him fired, and he’d lose friends but he would be able to start over more easily because there’s no public reputation to ruin or to follow him around.

More interestingly, I think Bojack wouldn’t have been so toxic if he never got famous. He’s shown in the eighties when he’s a working stand up to be mostly kind and pretty normal. He’d have trauma and probably still an alcohol issue, but I think he would still be a lot more stable and normal and less of an asshole. It was only when he became famous he became an entitled arrogant arse. Beforehand he was shy and pleasant (not so shy he wouldn’t do stand up, but shy to ask penny out for one thing).

I think to discuss this you also need to bring in the previous conversation Diane and Mr PB had on the topic. Before the Hank stuff came up he asked her to please not get wrapped up in any controversy, because his career was kind of stalled before his new show and he needed the new show to go well. And she agrees she will.

I think that plays into his annoyance at her in the conversation - not just doing it at all, but the fact she said she’d do one thing, then does the other (presumably) without giving him a heads up or anything.

He is in my worldview probably wrong for asking her to not speak up about Hank, but she was in the wrong for fanning a controversy after explicitly agreeing not to, without really telling him beforehand or discussing it with him.

She took heroin, he didn’t

He feels too uncomfortable expressing his feelings, he wants to say it but can’t, it’s too uncomfortable. Source: it’s a thing if you didn’t say it growing up

I don’t think it was necessarily meant literally, or meant to be understood as such.

Agree with everything you said OP.

I also think another element is that it happened on prom. Because prom is such a symbolic and pivotal part of the transition from school kid to adult. It’s the las time you see a lot of the kids you know from school, you’re dressed up and get to feel special and beautiful, and it’s a moment many look back on for a long time. It’s meant to be a happy memory, but for her it’s very likely ruined or at least overshadowed by everything that happened. So not only was it a traumatic experience, it also tarnished her experience and memory of her prom, which is now a bad memory. It’s also a “trigger” that gets brought up relatively often in culture, so it’s likely she thinks of it more often than if the stuff with Bojack had happened on a random non-momentous night. He ruined her prom. And yes I get prom isn’t a big deal for everyone, but it seemed like for Penny it was beforehand.

I mean, she didn’t break up with him? Bojack was the one who awkwardly raised the idea of them never speaking again, clearly looking for reassurance from Diane that of course they’d speak again - and she just didn’t give him that. She didn’t plan to end things with him, she just didn’t lie and tell him they were still friends, when he (subtextually) asked her if they were.

Yes, that’s why it’s in there

Life’s a bitch then you keep on living

Or just

And then you keep on living

I personally think Bojacks parents relationship was more toxic than Honey and Joseph.

Honey and Joseph were toxic, but it was more because of the mores of the day that he didn’t want to deal with her grief or mental illness. Obviously it’s horrible he had her lobotomised, but in their day that was the legit doctor recommended treatment for what she had (extreme depression). It’s not like he necessarily knew what she’d be like afterwards, there was no google back in the day so if the doctor told him it was the best thing for her then I don’t think he can be blamed for having it done. It also seems like it wasn’t against her will - she begged him for help.

Before Crackerjacks death they seemed to have a loving and affectionate relationship. The death of a child is a massive blow and many relationships that were healthy beforehand don’t survive it even in the modern day.

By comparison, Beatrice and her husband (his name escapes me) hated eachother even when everything was “good.” Like they were nice to eachother when they first met, but it’s shown that as soon as Bojack is born they start hating eachother. By the time Bojack is a child they’re openly antagonistic, even though there’s nothing majorly “wrong” with their lives (like there was with Beatrice’s parents after Crackerjack died). Beatrice even jokes (or seriously alludes) to hiding his heart medication.

So yeah I think Beatrice’s relationship was more toxic than Joseph and Honeys.

Diane and Mr Peanutbutter