I’ve seen people talk about actors and artists that had a terrible time.
My own would be Anne Rice. She wrote Interview with the Vampire after her young daughter died of Leukemia. Then her husband suddenly died of a brain hemorrhage. I suspect her Christian, anti-fanfic phase was a result of mental illness and manipulation from the publishers, although I don’t think she ever apologized.
I don’t feel bad for her personally of course but my inner child grieves for the JK Rowling I once admired. She was the reason I became an avid reader as a kid, she was the reason I wanted to pursue writing. I thought the world of her. I saw her as a mother to misfits. She could have been the most beloved children’s author of all time, but no.
Such a disappointment to us all.
As someone who has done a lot of counseling, there is a somewhat common situation in which people’s actions can basically create a monster. Is actually a fairly common thing in superhero literature and lore - the reluctant evil enemy that was created by the collective had and abuse of society.
Im not familiar with the details of the Rowling/trans person kefuffle, but it sounds as if that syndrome could be a factor. She came out with an opinion that wasn’t popular with a certain segment, and many not that demographic went on the attack. Given Rowling’s influence and wealth, rather than disappear for a while as some mentioned, she leaned into it and responded in kind. Together, their respective actions and words simply continued to escalate until we have what we have today.
It’'s probbly not common knowledge here in Reddit (Reddit being what it is) but as someone who does counseling professionally (or did) ive observed there is a rising sentiment among some mental health professionals that feel we are going about understanding and reacting to the trans person movement in wrong and unhealthy ways. These are opinions based on medical and sociological data and not founded in political movement, religion or their own compassion or passion, just professional opinions. However, if expressed here, im sure there are those who would excoriated them. Mayne Rowling was following some if those dissenting opinions when she formed and expressed her own.
She brought it on herself. The internet will do what it does and she knows that.
She is the one with the time and resources to actually educate herself. Failing to do so is her own fault.
I’m white and I advocate against racism and I assure you no amount of personal backlash or vitriol from racial minorities could ever change that view because it isn’t based in the way I’m treated, it’s a fundamental truth. She’s just transphobic.
What happened with her exactly? I’m don’t follow the news on these kind of things.
She’s a TERF. If you have an hour to spare, this video is a lovely insight into what she’s done and why it’s hurt fans so much.
Read her essay on the subject and form your own opinion.
https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/
Yeah, I had that same question months ago and got the same “google it” response. So I did, and now I feel bad for her. She has been labeled a severe “trans-phobe” for espousing very traditional feminist beliefs. It’s super sad but not for the reasons this sub would have you believe. I’ve been here for years and I can safely say that the authors haven’t changed radically, but this sub really has. Thought censorship in a literature sub. Think real hard about that.
She’s been labelled a transphobe for being a transphobe lmao. “Traditional feminist beliefs” my ass.
In the midst of a concentrated effort by conservatives across the US to ban books, it’s utterly ridiculous that you’re whining about “thought censorship” because people are criticizing JKRs transphobia. Criticism is censorship? Come on
We are all entitled to our opinions. I think that trans activism has gone too far and I no longer support it, specifically because of interactions like this. I looked at what she said, and it wasn’t hateful at all, it just didn’t blindly support trans ideology. If you have some quotes of hers you wanna share that you think might change my mind, please do.
I don’t care about changing your mind lmao, you’re a random asshole on the internet. I just wanted to point out how completely ridiculous you sound to label other people’s opinions of a famous person as censorship, but your bigoted opinions of normal everyday people you don’t think should have rights are somehow just harmless opinions nobody can comment on. Wild that you clearly consider yourself intelligent
You never did.
Because you have no probably with the discrimination of transpeople
You know… you attitude of accusing everyone of being an enemy the moment they do not fully share your opinon always reminds me of the stories my grandfather told me about the Communists and Nazis. There was always a point where someone was not pure enough in his opinion and got thrown out of the groupe. Not saying you follow any of suche idologies but when you became so self-rightious and blind that you cannot see the other person as human being anymore that is flawed then you have lost your path.
She is currently friends with and allies to and supportive of people and groups who are as far from “traditional feminist” as you can get. People like Matt Walsh. Groups like the “LGB Alliance”, which is made up of cis het people who want us all dead but it’s just convenient to start with the T. People who oppose abortion and marriage equality.
If you want to read the words of a traditional feminist, I would recommend Right-Wing Women by Andrea Dworkin. It explains pretty well why women like JKR turn towards rightwing movements.
So, I’m not from the UK and am not familiar with all the groups, but this is what Wikipedia says about LGB alliance: “The LGB Alliance describes its objective as “asserting the right of lesbians, bisexuals and gay men to define themselves as same-sex attracted”.” Your description of the group seems like it’s designed to mislead me even though you’re acting like you’re providing me with solid information. Basically, you smell like propaganda, and that’s a smell I’m trying to avoid thanks.
LOL, the propaganda is the LGB alliance which is NOT busied with the rights of anyone in the LGBTQ+ community.
As someone actually IN that community, they do not represent me. They’re founded and supported by cis and heterosexual people who want to dictate what our community gets to do. They can fuck all the way off with that.
Yeah, for better or worse, the vast majority of the world is “cis and heterosexual”, so using that as a reason to dismiss anything they say is not only logically incongruous with reality (where majority rule is the law of the land for very valid reasons), but it also forces people to draw battle lines unnecessarily. The trans community is asking people for some societal concessions that don’t make sense to much of the population, and instead of working to build coalitions when people express confusion, trans activists shout them down, label them, and dismiss them as “hateful”. From a political science perspective, it’s a slow rolling train wreck for minority rights. Not only is it a losing strategy for social change, but it alienates the minority group even further. It makes me sad. Truly.
If you’re heterosexual, you don’t get to create a group to promote any rights you think gays, lesbians or bisexuals should want.
Those lines are being drawn by cis het people actively trying to splinter the LGBTQ+ community. Hence a bunch of straight people creating things like. The LGB Alliance.
Or people like JKR talking about lesbians and their dating interests, no matter how many lesbians tell her to get the hell out of this conversation.
As a point of fact, nobody in the majority even has to form a club in order to set the social norms and mores for their society. We have a tradition of kindness and acceptance in the west, but it’s being interpreted falsely as a “right” of the minority groups to have anything they want, and that’s quite literally not part of the tradition.
Demanding fair treatment because fairness is part of our social fabric is a far different thing than demanding fair treatment “or else”. As a cis male (adopting that nomenclature is a concession I’ve been making out of respect, because it was not part of my lexicon prior to trans activism), I’ve been told multiple times that I can’t be an ally to the lgbtq+ community because of how I was born. As soon as I heard that I was both crestfallen and terrified for the future of the community. That was 7 years ago and it’s only gotten worse.
Please, just consider that I’m not saying I dislike you for who you are, but I think the way you’re engaging with this issue is counterproductive, and I can’t offer you support as you go about it.
Exactly. She’s not a transpose for having a difference of opinion. People donate to the NRA and don’t get called child murderers. The J.K hate is absolutely rediculous and overblown.
See: Stephen King’s continued defense of the child orgy scene and everybody loves him. Just the idea that he could be a pedophilic himself never surfaces. Would not be the case if this was Rowling.
“The whole I must be right, people are disagreeing with me” PS says a lot more about you than this sub.
And classifying Rowling’s crusade as “traditional feminist beliefs” is laughable. And “thought censorship”, where do you get this garbage? People expressing their feelings are a threat to yours, apparently.
Why are you so angry?
The basics of her ideology is that women exist as the female sex class, that they deserve spaces away from males for basic safety, that lesbians exist and deserve not to be pressured to have sex with natal males… this is the most basic feminist thought possible. Do you even know what the urinary leash is?
How many lesbians have to tell you or this woman to stop speaking for us? JKR is a cis het woman. She has no right to talk for what lesbians want.
Stop using us actual queers to justify hatred against our siblings. We’re a package deal. All of us or none of us.
😂😂😂saying “transphobia bad” isn’t thought censorship you clown. God forbid we don’t have espouse bigotry and call out those who do. JK Rowling is a full on transphobic piece of shit. Trans people are people and deserve to be treated as people, not like some kind of fucking oddity. If you can’t handle that that’s your problem. If you want to support transphobia…well that’s definitely your problem. The rest of us meanwhile will continue trying to be decent non-bigoted people🤷♂️
Oh, and downvotes don’t prove your point and thinking that they do…well it’s laughable
You’re now downvoted though, so by his rules, that makes you right
You’re super smart.
She basically went against the narrative that say there are more than two genders, refusing to back down. And defended women. https://www.glamour.com/story/a-complete-breakdown-of-the-jk-rowling-transgender-comments-controversy
Google.
There was a debacle not too long ago with her stans on Trans individuals. I don’t really know the complete details, but I believe that she made some tweets stating that trans women aren’t women.
If you want frwat information about it I recommend contrapoints, who covers most of it but also tries to not be disrespectful or hateful imo
I’d recommend reading what the woman herself said and not a third party with a clear agenda interpreting it for you.
At this point her twitter is pretty horrific, yes, but some people would benefit from seeing how she got there and putting it in context.
That “clear agenda” being “I am a trans woman and I’d like to not be hated for existing”.
Just so anyone reading along knows how disingenuous this person’s comment is.
Oh right. Here we go again.
It genuinely doesn’t matter what I (or anyone) say does it? Trans women are trans women. Women are women. Women deserve their spaces away from male humans, and I’m sorry if that hurts their feelings. I don’t hate them. I don’t even think about them on a day to day basis.
But anything less than 100% agreement and capitulation to what you believe about yourself, and apparently I hate you and want you to die.
The opposite of disagreement is actually not hate and death threats. Unless of course, you disagree with so-called TERFs in which case go ahead and post stuff like this.
My comment was not disingenuous. But yours is certainly hyperbolic, bordering on ridiculous.
Your comments are extremely disingenuous, considering you pretend that TERFs want anything except bad things for the people they hate. What brave feminists, to ally with literal Nazis if it gets them what they want. Screw all feminist causes, they are worth sacrificing so that the violent men will let you sit at the table and you can jeer at the icky “others” together.
I’m a woman. You don’t speak for me. JKR certainly does not speak for me. Neither does her bestie Kellie-Jay who loves it when literal Nazis show up to her events. They’d really like to burn the books of trans people again like in the literal 1930s.
If you want to try again to throw your bigoted misinformation at me, I’ll just block you. Because once someone is as far gone as that, they’re beyond saving. And I deserve a space away from bigots, regardless of their gender.
Block me then? I don’t actually care what you do. You’re just one more frothing anon on the internet.
I will say your rantings are absolutely delusional. So-called TERFs don’t want bad things and don’t hate people. They don’t ally with Nazis - strange how you view people wanting safe spaces for marginalised people and better care for children as what Nazis want. Nazis were the ones who experimented on children in actual, literal fact. Nazis might have shown up AT a KJK event, but they weren’t invited by her. KJK events are called Let Women Speak.
You can have your opinion that my opinions are bigoted - that’s fine. But it’s not misinformation.
Kellie. Jay. Keen. Aka Posie Parker.
Like she doesn’t invite men into women’s bathrooms? Like she doesn’t happily embrace the Nazis once they arrive?
Says a person only linking to propaganda sites, not even actual news sites.
Not for the marginalized people they hate, aka trans people. Or the marginalized people that tell them to STFU, aka the rest of the LGBTQ+ community.
Or the LGBTQ+ children who are suffering because of them.
The only people doing any frothing are transphobes like you. You do not speak for women. You do not speak for LGBTQ+ people. You do not speak for actually marginalized people.
And I don’t think that your opinions are bigoted. They just are. Anyone who allies with or supports KJK is a bigot because she is a literal Nazi.
Tldr she’s a colossal transphobe and actively goes out of her way (ie donating to hate groups/anti-trans groups) to make trans people’s lives worse.
Fucking same. Harry Potter 1 is THE first book I’ve ever read, a gift made by a classmate of mine (my bully too, IIRC) on my tenth birthday. If I ever get around to writing my book, it would be because of that gift, of that series, of her. But as a trans woman, how can I reconcile this with her hatred and activism against me ?
It’s painful
she was one of the authors as a kid that made me want to write, so i definitely get where you are coming from. She really did waste her potential at being up there with people like Terry Pratchett.
this is how i feel too. it hurts to know that she turned into such a bigot especially since a huge theme of harry potter is that love trumps hate
It seems like she was a bigot all along, because, according to her, trans people are like Death Eaters: Shocking many fans, Rowling also compared transgender activists to Harry Potter Death Eaters, an evil, radical group that follows Lord Voldemort and aims to eliminate all witches and wizards born to non-magical parents.
“Some of you have not understood the books,” she argued. “The Death Eaters claimed, ‘We have been made to live in secret, and now is our time, and any who stand in our way must be destroyed. If you disagree with us, you must die.’ They demonized and dehumanized those who were not like them. I am fighting what I see as a powerful, insidious, misogynistic movement that has gained huge purchase in very influential areas of society. I do not see this particular movement as either benign or powerless, so I’m afraid I stand with the women who are fighting to be heard against threats of loss of livelihood and threats to their safety.”
https://insidethemagic.net/2023/03/jk-rowling-trans-people-death-eaters-jc1/
Just like anti-trans activists.
She’s standing up for women. She doesn’t disappoint me at all.
Trans women are women, so nah, she really ain’t worth shit.
Isla Bryson is not a woman.
Right or wrong I am able to separate the art from the artist. From an early age whos conservative father would cancel every other actor for their liberal views I realized that politics is no lens to view an artist through.
And while I certainly can’t blame anyone for wanting nothing to do with J.K., the real shame to me is that she pretty much gave up her craft years ago.
More writing about wizards and less about what defines a women would probably be to everyones benefit.
I’m a big fan of this when the artist isn’t currently engaged in harmful activity. I have no problem rereading the Harry Potter books I already paid for, but I can’t buy any of the new media when she is so actively using her resources in what I see as a negative manner.
This rule applies to me, based on my values. I’m not saying other people are bad for continuing to support the HP universe, just adding my two cents on the idea of death of the author.
You know she is actively writing a detective series, right? They seem to be pretty popular, too. I haven’t read them but an avid reader I know said they were okay to good. She is still at her craft!
Yeah but in JKR’s case her weird fashy miserableness is right there in the text
Where?
Me too, but I’d still prefer not to have my money go to people actively spreading bigotry where possible, especially when those people believe it means you support them. Like, it’s one thing when the author is dead, or even when they’re only partly involved in creating a given work of art, but I’m done with Rowling and her work unless and until she either dies or comes around on her views. Not to mention that separating the art from the artist only goes up to a point. I was a big fan of David and Leigh Eddings’ books in my teenage years but when I found out how abusive they were to their foster children, I just could not separate that. No way. I have kids. The Eddings were put in jail for child abuse in the fucking 1970s when it was normal to beat your kids with a belt. I cannot separate that. Same as how I don’t want to read anything by Marion Zimmer Bradley.
Perhaps you should all listen to the podcast The Witch Hunt of JK Rowling before you start cancelling another person without listening to them properly.
Oh trust me, I have listened to everything she’s put out wanting to give her the benefit of the doubt and that is why I don’t support her anymore. She has made a total ass of herself, literally tweeted Merry TERFmas and comparing trans people to Death Eaters, her own wizard Nazi stand-ins. She can make all the excuses she wants but she just doubles down on being hateful and I’m done with her.
I listened to this, excited to perhaps hear perspective from an old favourite author. It was incredibly biased, and there was only a brief section where two trans people talked, and J.K. Didn’t converse with them at all.
Also, not that I’m not impressed by the leader of the podcast leaving a hateful cult she grew up in, but she is perhaps not the most unbiased person to have hosted this podcast.
“Don’t judge her by her words and actions, let this kiss-ass PR piece podcast do it for you!”
I have listened to her. That’s why I don’t like her, she’s a moron.
Doing something bad doesn’t negate all the good that came with it.
It’s completely alright to mourn when something good or potentially good goes awry.
It’s not that she did one thing, she revealed that her mentality is hateful and close-minded. Hard to get past that.
Yet it sort of does, because you start looking back at the characterisations and stereotypes she used in writing the originals and realise that there was bias in her writing from the beginning, that you didn’t notice because you were yet a child and yet unfamiliar with how stereotype can subconsciously affect people’s interactions and have an effect in society.
I never experienced the harry Potter fandom throwing slurs at me. If anything that stuff came from people who probably didn’t read any books. At the end of the day she inspired a whole generation of kids to read. There’s a lot of good that came from that.
People say she inspired a whole generation of kids to read. Honestly, so much of that was marketing spin by her publishing company.
Those books were a publishing fad, but others came before her and after her. Kids were always reading. They just weren’t all reading the same thing.
And apparently “the kids these days” are terrible readers and do not read as a hobby. Part of it is b/c they never learned how to read but they keep getting moved along to the next grade b/c being held back was deemed too stigmatizing.
For those of us who grew up with her books and don’t identify with our birth gender it does. Harry Potter was an escape for us because we were weird, didn’t fit in and had complicated feelings we didn’t know how to put into words. Now it is so tainted because we know we wouldn’t have been accepted there either. I loved the books and now it just hurts.
Because of this whole thread and convo, I went and looked up the HP walking tours in Edinburgh. The Potter Trail is the second result and they put a notice on their website that they stand with trans people.
I think her actions are kind of revealing who in the fandom actually genuinely believes in acceptance and love, and who is just blindly following her because they’ve put her on a pedestal.
Not sure how to end this reply, actually. I want to say something reassuring like “you matter” or “I’m glad you exist” but that’s probably… weird. I wish that no one had to experience the kind of hurt that comes with losing something that comforted them through their worst times.
As another commentor said, there are trans chars in the new hp game. You can even play as a trans character. You can separate the art and the artist
The game in my opinion is different as yeah it was made for the world she made but it wasn’t made by her. The books are just different, but those are my thoughts on the whole thing.
“Separate the art from the artist”.
Had to learn that lesson as I was a huge Beatles fan, John was my favorite, but hearing how his personal life went and how he treated everyone around him was very disappointing.
Still, Rowling needs to get her privileged head out of her ass, and realize that people are just people.
P.S. I love how they added a trans person in Hogwarts Legacy, as a big Fuck You to her.
Problem is that she’s still profiting from Hogwarts Legacy. And any profit she rakes in, she takes as an endorsement of her views on trans people. She said so herself on the hellsite she’s glued to so obsessively (seriously, the woman is a prime example of what happens when people don’t get off Twitter).
Still not what that phrase means
Yeah the unfortunate truth is that most people who have the…how shall I phrase it? Gumption? Force of will? Personality size? To become a successful artist and navigate the hurdles that stand in the way of that probably also have some glaring personality flaws in the package as well. Is it even possible gor an individual to achieve success at such a scale that ones work becomes widely known without having some skeletons in your closet? (Or shamelessly on display as in Rowling’s case?)
If you think they put something like that in the game without her okay, you are deluded. She doesn’t hate trans people as a whole, contrary to what frothing activists believe. She 100% considers them just people.
What she objects to is the erosion of single-sex spaces & services. If those were allowed to persist without being called bigotry, then she & probably many gender critical people wouldn’t have an issue. Don’t be a simpleton; recognize that there are complex perspectives involved and not just “hate”.
Sometimes I wonder if her health is okay because I do NOT recognize the person she has become. It’s almost as if the transphobia is her entire personality now. Sure, she definitely had internal prejudices (some of which were evident in the HP books), but she wasn’t hateful by any stretch of the imagination. She used to be so sharp and witty, but now she just reminds me of a lot of other Boomers who are chronically online reading conspiracy theories. Like, you’re telling me that the woman who famously lost her billionaire status by donating enormous amounts to charities would also be the same cynical person replying to broken-hearted and angry fans (via scathing tweets) that she’ll use her money to dry her tears when they stop buying her merchandise? This has got to be the bad timeline.
Perhaps if you read her words instead of thought pieces about her you would understand better?
I don’t agree with her but I can see why she feels the way she does as a woman. I think it’s a lot more nuanced issue than many people want it to be. Like, lots of teenagers feel very uncomfortable in their bodies and it’s not wrong to say you should learn to accept yourself (or at least that should be the first thing people hear), and I mean that for anything, big nose, freckles, etc. People make a lot of mistakes at that age. And I think it’s sexist to not support men wanting to be women because being a woman is a totally valid thing to want to be but I think some people who view being a woman more as being a victim find it off putting, like you scored the lottery being a man so get out of my space. And well, the whole sports thing is not a good look.
I think she feels like she is in the right and so just keeps buckling down and looking crazier and crazier.
Finally someone reasonable
Except this is the attitude of “racism would go away if we all just stopped talking about race”.
No, it wouldn’t. Because our culture is racist.
Ignoring the problem doesn’t make it go away, just like pretending gender isn’t a big deal doesn’t make gender roles go away.
Because that is the identity within our culture that is most comfortable for the person. Acknowledging that is not an advocation for the system, it’s harm reduction within the system.
And the first step to abolishing gender is disassociating it from sex.
Not to claim that you think differently, just expanding on that line.
Controversial take, but I think people underestimate how bad the backlash was to her original essay and how that might have affected her psychologically, combined with the fact that that that has never stopped happening since. I’m not saying there shouldn’t have been backlash, I mean that people underestimate how much of it is and always has been rape and death threats, which is not a genuine expression of upset at someone’s political views, it’s because you want to send someone rape and death threats.
There was also the ickabog, where people sent porn, and child porn, to a tag being used by children + parents to post children’s drawings - that’s not a genuine expression of political dissent either, that’s because you want to try and inflict porn on children and make it her problem at the same time.
I don’t think anyone should be like, “Well, if I was receiving rape and death threats every day, I would simply just brush them off and be cool about it.”
People have literally turned up her house / castle - she doesn’t and you don’t know that those aren’t the same people sending or planning the threats.
Her original essay was mostly focused on Keira Bell, who is a detransitioner who genuinely felt that she shouldn’t have been allowed to transition, and who I think is the only trans (or ex-trans) person JKR had probably personally met upon writing the essay, outside of stuff on the internet, and the response should have been, “one person’s regret doesn’t represent everybody” not “let’s tell her we want to decapitate her” - which people did, many people did, because I saw them.
She’s not going to get better until she literally stops being threatened. Q boomers are imagining threats, but she is literally receiving them on a regular basis, due to being a massive public figure.
She started falling apart before she got sucked down the transphobia rabbit hole. Don’t forget that just before it dropped she’d blown up for her weird tweets about the Harry Potter universe about wizards publicly shitting themselves and had her attempts at writing other things repeatedly flop. She clearly liked both being a beloved writer and being a twitter personality, and I think her insecurities over both of those things left her open to being drawn into the terf cult.
This article from a while back by Scalzi about the surprisingly common phenomenon of SF/Fantasy authors losing their minds always comes to mind when I think about how Rowling wound up where she is now.
https://whatever.scalzi.com/2017/05/03/the-brain-eater/
? The Strike series are very successful.
So the thing is they only got anywhere after someone leaked that they were written by her while “wearing manface”, to use terf-adjacent terminology. The first book she wrote for adults under her own name had a resoundingly mixed reception. It seems to me that she was trying to do a Steven King and prove to herself that she wasn’t just coasting on her own name, and failed pretty miserably at it.
Yep, that she did. I’ve read her other books and they’re shite.
The fuck??
I don’t agree with the threats but I also don’t agree that when someone’s existence is being debated openly, they have to be the bigger person.
If you’re an incredibly wealthy woman with all of the prestige and status that JKR has, you can survive a few internet trolls. Just go offline for a while, chill in your mansion, and come back once you have used your immense network or resources to actually form an opinion.
You don’t owe politeness to bigots, honestly, even if it hurts their feelings.
All Rowling has ever said is that women deserve their own spaces and words. For females. Because male-born trans women are not and will never have the same experiences or fears. It’s not bigoted to say that.
What that has got to do with debating someone’s existence I don’t know.
Do ‘bigots’ deserve to have thousands of rape and death and violence threats and doxxing attempts thrown at them? Because that’s what it seems some people think the opposite of ‘not owing politeness to bigots’ means.
I find this sentiment so interesting, because it implies that cis women have the same experience and fears, which is so obviously not true.
It’s almost like you can’t draw conclusions about someone’s perspective from aspects of their identity or social presentation… but damn, people really want to try.
I’m not trying to make a point, just amused and trying to broaden my own thinking.
For what it’s worth, no one deserves threats, and that seems to be a inevitable consequence of fame (regardless of one’s views). I think I that’s horrific, but the only solution I’ve found is avoiding fame at all costs.
I also have think the defenses of Rowling are sometimes accurate (like the idea that the doesn’t want all trans people killed), but that’s a bit disingenuous. A high profile influential person questioning whether children should be able to receive gender affirming care has demonstrable negative effects on trans people, including the deaths if children. This has been studied. It’s fair to hold people accountable for their actions, and she is responsible for her choices.
She has said a lot more than that, and publicly supported people who have said a lot worse things as well. You’re living with your head deliberately in the sand if you can’t see what her true views are after all the tweets and articles she’s put out about trans people lately.
Thanks but I’ve read everything she’s put out, other than her books ironically.
What do you think her true views are? Considering she has not once said anything about wishing death on trans people (or anyone) which is more than I can say for her detractors who are seemingly quite happy to support the people that post stuff like this.
But those never seem to count. It’s only when women say no that people seem to get up in arms.
Finally someone with a rational opinion. J.k. isn’t the villain all of these people want her to be.
No one who cites that site has a rational opinion.
I dont like her opinion and that is true, though. She nevercalled forthe death of people.
I find the people who feel so self-rightious that they sent death threats to people over a shitty opinon much worse than the people who simply have a shitty opinon.
However, I think the sting would not have been that bad if Rowling was not as famous and did not spent her time so much on twitter doubling down on it after the backlash.
That’s the reason why so many women love her is precisely for her refusal to back down. Rowling has enough clout and money behind her to not have to think about potentially losing her job over the apparently controversial opinion that women are women and trans women are trans women.
And the reason it’s always trans women? Because the power lays - and always has done - with males. A man telling the world he is a woman holds more clout than a woman telling the world he isn’t.
I’m laughing just reading how extremely nuts it’s being made out to be when the women didn’t actually say anything new.
There are differences. WOW so controversial lol. She didn’t disparage anyone with names etc.
If she’s so deplorable then I hate to tell you about some other people we have in the world.
Y’all gotta toughen tf up. People have a right to express their feelings.
If you don’t allow that the consequences are far worse.
That’s why we have all these right wing nutjobs in the world now.
Everyone forced a silence on certain topics and the right types of people took advantage.
Not everything will fit neatly onto little political compasses folks.
Well there’s her first challenge. She’s practically glued to Twitter.
I mean. There’s a lot of space between ‘not being the bigger person’ and ‘not being polite’ and ‘sending someone rape and death threats’ and an incredibly frustrating part of this whole conversation is that they are treated as if they are basically the same thing. I am impolite all the time yet I never threaten anybody.
Also, again, she can go offline but people have turned up where she lives, on several occaisions.
You probably could have ended that sentence there, unfortunately.
I know women who have the same vehemence as her on this issue despite being liberal and progressive in every other aspect of their lives.
In both cases, they were assaulted by men when young, as Rowling was, and in both cases, the biological distinction of being a woman is important to them, because they utterly fear and loathe most men.
It’s not a conscious, constant hatred of the other gender, it’s a continual subconscious and internalized fear of being assaulted again.
Anything that reinforces that fear by allowing the notion of men being able to pass among women triggers their internal insecurity about rape, basically.
Psychologically speaking, it’s entirely understandable. It’s not stable or rational, but it’s also a product of horrible trauma and not a mere matter of them “choosing” to be bigoted.
I think that’s painting all trauma survivors as people who can’t “choose”, though. A great many women have survived trauma, even the same kind of trauma, as Rowling, and haven’t become bigots. Hell, trans people are at a massively increased risk of sexual assault, and most of them aren’t bigots.
Sorry, but as a trauma survivor, I think it’s highly irresponsible to attribute bigotry to trauma. Bigots are ALWAYS choosing to be bigots. We trauma survivors are not exempt from this. We’re not led by instinct. We have agency to choose. And JKR chose to become a bigot and is every day choosing to remain one. She is fully accountable for her actions, as any other bigot is.
Why? I literally referred to three women going through this and posited why. I didn’t apply it to “all” at any time.
I’m also a trauma survivor and have had complex PTSD for much of my life. If I can understand their subconscious drivers are clearly beyond their control or understanding, you should be able to as well.
People are psychologically complex. By ascribing “all” to my post, you’re doing the exact thing you’re accusing me of: assuming everyone could handle it the way you did.
EVERY HUMAN BEING IS LED BY INSTINCT. We all have subconscious drivers we DO NOT, and CANNOT control.
That is a neurobiological reality of how the brain functions. No neuroscientist worth his salt will comprehensively say we have “free will” if the definition includes controlling subconscious drivers.
I think it is difficult for people to understand who do not have mental issues. I have in certain situations severe anxiety. People even those who know me well often do not understand that I cannot just help being the way I am. That the feelings that come are not something I can control. People constantly interpret my behaviour as asocial and unfriendly but I am far from that I just cannot help becoming defensive and silent when I am afraid.
I did not read it as specific to those three people, but as a more general statement on these types of people, who turn to bigotry and have a history of trauma.
Uh, no, that’s just what I inferred you saying from your comment. Hence I called it out, because I thought YOU were saying it.
There are things outside of our control. Being a bigot is not one of them. It is not an instinct. It is an active choice one has to make and keep making. If you’re traumatized by the actions of a man and a specific trans person’s appearance happens to trigger your trauma and you go into fight/flight/freeze/fawn, then that’s an instinct. But if you then go on a rampage to call all trans people rapists and donate to transphobic causes and people and ally yourself with actual fascists and fascism-apologists, that is not an instinct. That is an active choice.
But it’s a choice based on belief, which humans have a very hard time controlling. So it’s a deeply misinformed choice.
… what? You seriously think we can’t control beliefs or opinions?
Do you just think that humans are mindless automatons who can’t control anything or most things in life? Because that’s nonsense.
And why is it so important to you to find explanations or excuses for her choices? The choices remain deeply damaging to society and to marginalized people and communities. Even if she was truly just motivated by her own trauma, that does not make these choices defensible. She is making the world worse for people who have done nothing to her and who only want to exist in peace.
There is no defense for this.
I totally agree with you, but I don’t agree that she couldn’t get better given the space and time to do so, it’s just that genuinely giving her privacy and space is impossible in the age of social media, globalisation, etc.
I think people forget that where she is now isn’t where she started, where she is now has been psychologically reinforced over and over again by the things I’ve mentioned, and that where she started is only just over 3 years ago - it seems much longer bc it was covid years. 3 years is not a lot in a lifetime over otherwise being a kind and almost uniquely generous person.
If somehow her circumstances could change, I think she could change.
Possibly. The two women I know who are similar in outlook are not rich, famous or exposed publicly.
But that also prevents any change or view of the matter as something that requires change; it doesn’t impact their lives to fear trans people. They don’t know any … other than a relative of mine, who they treat nicely despite their own views, because cognitive dissonance allows it.
In both cases, they are intellectually gifted but deeply emotionally arrested, so therefore immature in many of their views, attitudes and behaviours. Outwardly, loving and normal. Inwardly, incredibly conflicted and unlikely to ever trust most people enough to seek help.
Ultimately, when people suffer trauma, they also suffer mental disorders. As someone who has struggled with them my whole life, I can tell you most mentally ill people can’t see, or qualify, or quantify their issues.
So expecting them to change is extremely optimistic at best, and often just naive.
It’s very rare for people to “fix” deeply negative traits. They are defensive traits, typically. Until the person feels secure enough to get help – which usually requires outside intervention – it never happens.
Yes, she won’t seek that help because she’s rich, famous and can isolate however she likes. But equally, the average person will never seek it because they are literally never exposed to any ramification of feeling that way.
Again, mostly agree, although I would argue that it does impact her life to fear trans people when again, they turn up where she lives. That is not going to convince anyone to support you or change their mind.
Have you ever considered that, perhaps, if your greatest enemies are lesbians and feminists, that you could be the one in the wrong?
What are you even talking about? Read the post. I’m not enemies with JK Rowling or anybody, for that matter.
That will never happen simply because wherever there is any amount of public controversy, some idiot will use that to get out the death threats he really wants to send someone, anyone.
But I also think you’re giving much more grace to her here. She lives in a mansion, she’s a billionaire, she could hire round-the-clock security. But the policies she is advocating are actively being used (for example, in the US) to strip away the rights of trans people and continue to commit violence on them. Trans people HAVE DIED because of JK Rowling’s actions and words.
Where is the grace for those real threats that trans people receive and have to live with? Most of whom can’t hide in a huge mansion and can’t hire round-the-clock security?
Also, JKR sees the very existence of trans people as a threat nowadays, so there is no way she will ever stop feeling threatened. Because she is not as different from a QAnon tinfoil hat as you want to believe. A trans woman can’t even exist online without JKR denigrating her humanity and calling her a rapist. Those are not beliefs grounded in facts. Those are conspiracy theories.
Which ones, specifically?
To be completely honest, when she officially came out as a transphobe in 2020, I blocked all her social media, deleted Twitter, unfollowed fan pages, and then tried to pretend she no longer existed (mostly so that I could protect my beloved childhood memories - I was a major fan). To this day I still only engage with very small, safe HP communities online. So I don’t know everything that’s been going on. I have heard through the grapevine, though, some of things she’s done since then (like the mean tweets and donating only to trans-exclusionary charities) as well as some of the backlash. You’re right, it does sound very brutal what she’s gone through, and I do feel some sympathy for her. She once said that her greatest fear is her loved ones dying, so I have to imagine there is a lot of terror around those death threats if they are targeting her family members as well. I would be afraid to leave the house or let my kids go anywhere. It’s unacceptable for people to act like that. I don’t care how noble the cause.
Still, I wish one of her loved ones would take her damn phone away and tell her to get off Twitter.
I’ve not heard of anyone targeting her family, but I wouldn’t exactly be surprised. I think because of her recognisability the internet is probably her main source of new / fresh social contact now and so it’s a self-reinforcing problem.
I don’t necessarily disagree, but (at least in the trans community) she was already being outwardly hateful long before she posted her essay. She followed and retweeted self proclaimed neonazis, racists and anti-feminists whenever they shared criticisms and vague hatred towards trans communities.
The essay was for a lot of people the final step that cemented her stay in a hatred filled community, not the beginning of her decline into hatred fuelled posting.
She also used to receive death threats from those hateful right wing christians, because she wrote about magic and included a character vaguely to be hinted at that he was gay… Now she works with them because they agree on the anti-trans issues, THAT is when those death threats lessened: when she changed her public image.
Don’t know if I agree but that’s an interesting thought. Maybe receiving death threats makes her think she’s writing things WORTH receiving death threats for. Or what she wrote needed to become worth it for her, so she leaned in. Threats are easier to brush off when you have a layer of conviction or righteousness between you
I agree…I think she might have even come to accept a different viewpoint if people had not so viciously attacked her.
That is why I am not a fan of this kind of activism. It cancels any debate and debate is the only thing we can use to deal with such complex topics.
Eh, I disagree. I think she was already way too far gone. She was supporting Maya Forstater way before that essay. She was probably way further down the pipeline than anyone outside really knew, and she just became emboldened by anything that criticized or insulted her to lean more publicly into it.
At the end of the day, if JKR wanted to be open to debate and respectful of trans people, she’d be that. Doesn’t matter what anyone writes online if she truly wanted to respect other people. It’s just a convenient excuse to go “see they’re big meanies who want me dead so that’s why I can be mean back”.
I definitely think this is part of it!
Pretty sure she was getting death threats, rape threats, etc, from the moment she became famous, well before her transphobia became public.
Isn’t it actively a stop on that one Harry Potter tour
No idea, but it was covered in the news as unwelcome intruders, so not part of the tour.
Just did a little googling and yep. These are her tweets claiming her address was leaked by The Evil Trans Activists (https://imgur.io/pBxwlR0?r), this is the public Wikipedia page for her house (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killiechassie), this is my level of sympathy for her
Poor public figure billionaire who couldn’t get off twitter long enough for some self reflection
Yep, I feel like JK is a great example of what happens when you attack people for not getting things right, instead of gently showing them the error of their ways.
One of my trans friends espoused much the same perspective as yourself. She was a deeply empathetic person at the beginning. If people hadn’t attacked her the way they did, she probably wouldn’t have been radicalized.
She was already radicalized pretty far when she threw out the essay and justifiably got called out for it. You don’t support Maya Forstater and her desire to create a toxic work environment if you’re not already a good chunk down the radicalization pipeline.
I think people don’t consider that her publisher made her publish as JK because they didn’t want anyone to know she was a woman. It’s her life’s work and her name isn’t on it, because of her gender. I don’t think it’s right, but I can see how she’d be frustrated at being told that anyone can be a woman when she wasn’t allowed to have her womanhood evident on the books she wrote.
ironic considering that’s exactly what she denies for trans women
Right, it’s incongruous that there are both people choosing to live as women and being celebrated, and the numerous scenarios where being identifiable as a woman is a disadvantage.
Several trans women have talked about this, actually. Trans men too: How, upon transitioning and coming to a point of “passing”, they are suddenly treated veeery differently.
If Rowling wanted to publish under her legal name, she could. Her publishers aren’t even getting her work properly edited anymore and haven’t since several books into the HP series. A writer of her standing can make the publishers print “Joanne Rowling” on the cover if she wanted to.
Weirdly, she chose another pen name instead, and an outright masculine name at that. I highly doubt she gives a crap about whether her first name is on her books.
She was to certain acceptable targets. The most glaringly obvious is probably fat people. The HP books are dripping with fatphobia, both in terms of which characters are fat and how those fat characters are described. She’s by no means unique in this, but it’s glaringly mean-spirited. You don’t write those descriptions by accident.
There’s also a very interesting(perhaps unconscious, on her part) thing she does in differentiating fat-evil and skinny-evil. Characters who are fat-evil aren’t going to redeem themselves, but skinny-evil characters(the ones who are explicitly described as being skinny, to be clear) are more likely to have hidden nuance to them, like Aunt Petunia’s reveal. The most obvious case of this was Dudley’s transformation in book 5, with his weight loss correlating with a change in behavior toward Harry. Oh but the dementor was responsible! Yeah, but what was stopping him from still being fat when the dementor did its thing? Why did JKR make that choice? Could it be that she couldn’t bring herself to introduce that nuance to a character who had previously been described as that disgustingly fat?
Molly, Charlie, Fred & George Weasley were all described as stout-figured in the books. Nobody hates them (well Filch, when they earned it). Neville was also depicted as being round. I don’t have time to list every overweight character on the “good” side; the point you should be able to acknowledge is that she did not make heaviness an exclusively evil trait.
Additionally, most of the antagonists are thin/average. Do you think you’re meant to read them as less-bad people because of that? No, because weight/body type has literally nothing to do with the battle lines.
You should listen to Shaun’s video on the Harry Potter series. He pointed out the meanness towards fat characters and also the way it’s treated differently in “good” vs “bad” characters.
She fell victim to a hate-mob. I feel sorry for her
Have you read her essay?
She is still very much beloved by many people outside the internet. Most people do not even know what she said or did.